Flow, Freedom, and the Art of Possibility: How One Educator is Transforming Music Education

Interview with Benjamin Zander and Amy Fish Cele (A Vision of Possibility Inspired by the Master Key Experience)

There is a palpable feeling of exhilaration in the classroom as Benjamin Zander sits down with music educator Amy Fish Cele. Though now in his mid-eighties, there’s a youthful sparkle in Maestro Zander’s eyes and his smile is electric. He has just observed one of Amy’s third-grade music classes. Sunlight streams through the windows, and though the school is modestly funded and serves an underserved community, the room vibrates with color, rhythm, and creativity. Instruments line the shelves, and the open space in the center still hums with the energy of the children’s movement and laughter.

Zander is in Dallas as a guest of the Dallas Symphony Orchestra, having heard about Amy’s transformative work in music education. He has come to observe her class and record a conversation for his podcast, inspired by his celebrated book The Art of Possibility.

For a moment, the two sit in reverent silence—honoring the stillness that follows rhythm, movement, and sound. Then Zander leans forward with a bright smile.

BZ: “Thank you so much for allowing me to witness your work and for showing us how you’re transforming music education.”

AFC: “You’re so welcome—and thank you! It’s truly an honor.”
BZ: “Tell me about your journey in music education. How did you begin, and what has brought you to this moment?”

AFC: “I began teaching music about 25 years ago—really, as a bit of an outsider. I studied violin as a child and completed some undergraduate work in music therapy, but I didn’t initially see myself as a music educator. I started by offering violin lessons and was invited by my sons’ nursery school to teach classes there two mornings a week. Over time, my passion for teaching grew. I studied Suzuki pedagogy and expanded my work in both early childhood music and violin.
Eventually, I founded and directed a nonprofit music school for over 15 years before moving to the Dallas area. It’s funny—though I wouldn’t call myself a virtuoso on any one instrument, I know that teaching music is my life’s work. I find my bliss in helping others experience the joy of possibility. Music is simply the vehicle that allows that transformation to unfold.”

BZ: “Tell me a little about the class you just taught. Can you describe it for our listeners? It had many familiar elements of an elementary music class, yet it was vastly different. The students were deeply engaged—the complexity of their musical understanding was remarkable—and yet it was accessible to everyone. You inspired such deep connection; the children were moving, singing, and clapping together in a way I rarely see, even among trained musicians.”

AFC: “Thank you—that means so much to me! My classes didn’t always look like that. For many years, I would plan my lessons carefully, but once I put them into action, I struggled to keep students engaged—to help them listen to one another or move beyond the fear of mistakes. There were fleeting moments of magic when everyone flowed together, but I couldn’t consistently guide them there. It felt accidental.”

Several years ago, I became involved in a rhythm process called TaKeTiNa. My husband, Michael Kenny, is one of the few trained TaKeTiNa teachers in the U.S.—and the only music therapist in this country trained in it. Developed by Austrian composer Reinhard Flatischler, TaKeTiNa is a profound and elegant process for connecting to rhythm, movement, and voice. At first, I joined Michael’s groups simply as a participant. After experiencing how it transformed my own inner rhythm—my awareness, my breath, my ability to be present—I began taking a more active role, playing the surdo (the large drum you saw) and the berimbau (a musical bow).

To be clear, what you saw today wasn’t TaKeTiNa itself; I’d need formal training to lead a true circle. But I’ve integrated many of its principles into my teaching, and it’s given me profound freedom as an educator. I can now guide my students into those magical moments of flow and connection much more consistently. I’ve grown in confidence and found ways to make rhythm and music accessible to everyone.

To describe what you saw: we began in a circle, grounding ourselves and preparing for our musical journey. Students spoke rhythm syllables, then moved and clapped to them—using their voices and bodies as instruments. The voice becomes our guide. As we add layers of movement, stepping, and clapping, we experience rhythm both individually and collectively. We fall in and out of rhythm—and learn to laugh and forgive ourselves when we don’t ‘get it right.’

Many would be surprised that a group of eight-year-olds can speak, clap, and step through complex rhythmic patterns, but as you saw, it’s entirely possible. Later, we sang in call-and-response while continuing to move as a group—this is where the process truly ignites. Finally, we sat together to rest and reflect. The students shared what they experienced—this reflection is essential. When they articulate their insights, challenges, and moments of joy, they anchor those lessons deep within themselves. These learnings extend far beyond music. Next week, we’ll apply them directly to playing the instruments you see around the room.”

BZ: “I wish I could be here for that! I’ve heard from many in the Dallas music community that your work has unlocked incredible musical potential in your students. Can you tell us more about that?”

AFC: “It’s remarkable how TaKeTiNa principles help students connect—both musically and personally. They learn to play in rhythm, listen deeply, and support one another. My teaching has become easier and far more joyful. Preparing for concerts, for example, is now a delight rather than a stress.

Even more profound is how these skills reach beyond music. The children learn resilience, self-compassion, and collaboration. They discover that their voice—literally and figuratively—is their greatest teacher. I learn alongside them. Their classroom teachers often tell me they see greater confidence, cooperation, and empathy in these students.”

BZ: “Aside from your impactful work in music education, can you tell our listeners more about yourself? How have you discovered the art of possibility in your own life?”

AFC: “I feel incredibly blessed to live a life full of possibility. My husband, Michael, and I live with our daughter in a home that feels like a sanctuary—a space of restoration, creativity, and laughter. We travel often, bringing TaKeTiNa to diverse communities: corporate teams, symphony orchestras, educators, and nonprofits. I’ve also had the honor of presenting at music educator conferences and workshops around the country.

I love to travel and visit family often, including my four sons and my granddaughter. A few years ago, Michael and I traveled to France—not only for our long-overdue honeymoon, but to reconnect with old friends and form new, lasting relationships.

Every day, I commit to nurturing my spirit and honoring my body through yoga, walking, swimming, meditation, and prayer. I’m deeply grateful for a circle of wise, spiritually grounded women who have met monthly since 2026. We hold space for one another through joy and challenge, and we listen deeply—without judgment, only love.
Through my journey with the Master Key Experience, I’ve come to see how small daily habits shape the reality of our lives. I’m learning to speak consciously to my subconscious—to act from love, to give freely, and to live intentionally. These practices, combined with the principles I teach through music, bring my Definite Major Purpose to life: to experience liberty, true health, and joyful connection, and to help others do the same. My life, my teaching, and my home are all expressions of that inner work—an ongoing symphony of possibility.”

BZ: (smiling) “What a beautiful symphony indeed. You’ve embodied something I’ve spoken about for years—that the conductor’s real power lies not in control, but in the invitation. You’ve created an environment where every child feels invited to contribute—to play, to explore, to belong.
You remind me of a phrase I often use: ‘It’s all invented.’ When we realize that, the world opens wide with possibility. You’ve reinvented what a classroom can be—what learning can be—by bringing your full, authentic self to it.
Amy, the work you’re doing here doesn’t just create musicians; it creates human beings who listen, connect, and imagine. And that, I believe, is the true art of possibility.”

AFC: “Thank you! Speaking to you here today is a dream come true and confirmation to me that the possibilities in life are endless!”